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Can iOS porters of open source apps please not charge for their ports? It's against the entire spirit of open source and it's shitty

current shit list:
* mobius sync (syncthing port)
* keepassium (keepass port)
* quine (tiddlywiki port)

@nihilazo unfortunately it's entirely within the spirit of apple's ecosystem

@zvava yeah it is
but not in the spirit of open source
I'd happily pay for a good app (better than having ads in it) but not if that app is something that is free on literally every other platform

@nihilazo @zvava then get another platform? or compile it yourself? nobody preventing youfrom doing that..

gnu.org/philosophy/selling.en.

@bonifartius @zvava

"get another platform": iphones are the only mobile devices that have a reasonable support lifetime and are available refurbished for a price I can afford, they are essentially my only option for a device that will last longer than a year or two

"compile it yourself": I don't own a mac and one is requires to run xcode

so yes I am prevented from doing those

@nihilazo
idk, i use refurbished androids with non stock os flashed. run for years too.

> "compile it yourself": I don't own a mac and one is requires to run xcode

and the people porting get those for free?

you essentially are in "i pay others so that things work" land with apple, and i don't see why that wouldn't count for work on free software like the ported keepass. it's about source code availability, not "precompiled binaries for free".

@zvava

@bonifartius @zvava the problem with non stock OS is twofold:

1. maintainers could drop out at any moment leaving you with a device that is totally insecure
2. you are relying on the build of android shipped by whoever is shipping it, so it could be full of even worse stuff than the manufacturer just hidden

I get that making ios apps costs money but there is not really an option to compile them yourself unlike other open source stuff
also the people porting stuff already own macs

@nihilazo
maintainers dropping stuff isn't great, yeah.

> 2. you are relying on the build of android shipped by whoever is shipping it, so it could be full of even worse stuff than the manufacturer just hidden

randoms from the net are probably more trustworthy than $bigtech, at least from the "puts government bugs into my software" standpoint.

> I get that making ios apps costs money but there is not really an option to compile them yourself unlike other open source stuff

yeah, well, so.. tough luck on the porters? sorry, it just sounds totally entitled to demand that they hand out things for free (when they had to pay money themselves) and put software on a "shit list".

@zvava

@bonifartius @zvava well it's open source software. They could do what these projects do on PC to fund themselves - donations etc. I completely understand wanting to be paid for your work but in this case "your work" is like 10% your work and 90% the unpaid work of the open source community, and you are taking all the money

@nihilazo @bonifartius @zvava Don't forget a 100$ annual subscription to actually get a license and be able to install apps on your system. (iOS revokes apps that are not signed with an official Apple Developer)

@nihilazo is it though? There are costs associated with publishing binaries/apps on iOS, and e.g. GPL allows you to charge money for postage to mail people the source code (which binaries are not).

@nihilazo I agree with the spirit of this, but not the letter 😄

Open Source has never been about money, hence the distinction between "free as in beer" and "free as in freedom". It just tends that way because if you make source available, people will just build it themselves (or get it from someone who does) instead of paying you.

In a closed-garden system where it literally costs $99/yr to keep an app in the store(!) like Apple, I think it makes plenty of sense to charge a small fee for compiled binaries, it's always been legal (and within the spirit, I would argue) to sell binaries, why shouldn't developers charge a small fee for it when it actively and recurringly costs them a significant subscription fee?

@cincodenada I guess. I think I was mostly just annoyed by being asked to pay for apps when I tooted this. I'll probably buy quine 2 eventually.

but fwiw charging for the iphone app did loose syncthing a user, I'm on resilio now purely bc the ios app is free

@nihilazo And that's fair, that's the market, such as it is! I acknowledge I have enough disposable income to be less bothered and more willing to support people who are, ultimately, making it easier and more reliable for me to accomplish my goal, which is to use communally-developed software that is open and accessible to all.

Funding in open-source is and always has been a huge problem, because we live in a largely capitalist global society so you unfortunately can't just put good out into the world without worrying about money, so I actually really like this model, it means the people building the apps can spend more time doing so.

Especially with apps like SyncThing, where I believe the app is published by the core dev team/organization. That's a win-win in my book!

Donationware is great and I buy a ton of support-the-dev upgrades too, but reality is that those numbers don't often balance out for the devs.

@nihilazo So like, yes you should be able to download them for free! But in the case of the Apple ecosystem that is especially hard to make work because we live in a capitalist system.

And you're totally right that there are good reasons for being in that ecosystem even if you don't like it! That's what walled gardens do, they trap you in a nice safe functional ecosystem, my make sure you can't afford the other options. That's capitalism for you! 😩

So I vote be mad, but reserve most of your ire for Apple for perpetuating the age-old Walled Garden strategy and capitalism for trapping you there.

@nihilazo On SyncThing, I checked and there's been demand for an iOS app (it's literally the longest-standing issue on their GitHub), but the dev team just hasn't had the capacity or ability to do so.

Instead, MobiusSync is a third-party project that exists solely because developing an iOS app for free wasn't feasible. They sponsor SyncThing for at least $100/mo according to their FAQ, which I would expect from such a project, and given that I think it's a reasonable and helpful venture.

All of which is to say, you're totally reasonable to choose a different option! I think everyone's doing their best here, and the system just kinda sucks.

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